Sixth and Final Interview
Boney's final interview began at 7:55PM on March 7, 2005 and Gilbert began by proclaiming that he and Kessinger needed to "see if we can straighten out some of these inconsistencies that just aren't quite making sense to us."
Inconsistencies still abounded after over thirty hours of interview and interrogation of Charles Boney. Did Boney clear up those inconsistencies? Would his story still be a "crock of shit" and a "story of convenience" after his last interrogation?
Boney began by recapping his previous story about meeting David Camm at the local Community Park in July, 2000. He added some figures to the ball players and the spectators, however. He claimed that, "you're looking at anywhere from 14 to 16 maybe even 18 if you count the other courts…people playing 2 on 2 whatever." He reiterated that he didn't know anyone present.
Its one thing for Boney to claim that he didn't know anyone present, but no one has ever claimed that David Camm was playing at the Community Park, with or without Boney, in the summer of 2000. David Camm's photograph and video clips of him were literally plastered on every newspaper and television station for years and no one has ever claimed to have seen him at Community Park.
Boney again insisted that he and Camm had never spoken on the telephone. Boney knew, of course, that telephone records could refute any such allegation. Keep in mind that nothing of what Boney claimed had been verified. Conversely, if there were records which refuted his allegations that would be proof of his lying. Boney wasn't going to give the investigators anything which would do the latter. Better to make the allegation and not be proven a liar through other witnesses or records, regardless of how illogical the claim might be.
Boney then claimed that the next time he met Camm was at the Better Way Food Mart, in a "chance meeting" in mid-September. It was then, Boney claimed, that Camm asked him if he had any connections to get guns. Boney claimed that "red flags" went up, but that nonetheless he agreed to procure a gun for Camm, whom he knew to be a former State Police officer.
Boney, the convicted felon and recently released from prison, agreed to sell a gun to a guy that he knew to have been a police officer. Does that even pass the common sense smell test? How likely would it be that a convict, whom many different people knew hated cops, would be to agree to sell a gun to a former police officer whom he just happened to meet by chance?
Boney then claimed that he followed Camm for 15-20 minutes. What was Camm driving? Boney couldn't recall. He did recall, however, that when he later saw the Bronco that it had an FOP sticker on the rear of it. He did recall a small FOP sticker, barely 2" in diameter, but he couldn't recall the vehicle that Camm was driving after being behind it for 15-20 minutes. (Note: Some have suggested that Boney's hatred of police officers attracted him to the Bronco with the FOP sticker and therefore made Kim a target; remember also that Boney claimed that he could tell if a woman had nice legs even if she was wearing pants. Was this the perfect storm for Boney? An attractive woman, wearing pants, and who had a relationship with a police officer?)
 What was the purpose of Camm taking Boney home? Uh, that really wasn't explained. Boney merely said that he spent no more than 15 minutes at the house and then he left to procure a gun from Larry Gerkin, the guy who Boney claimed oiled his guns and who had 20 weapons in the trunk of his car from which to choose that night. It's probably not a coincidence that Gerkin sounds like Jerkin. Regardless, no one had ever heard of the prolific gun dealer and a photo array provided to Boney by Kessinger failed to elicit any identification of Gerkin.
Boney claimed that he chose a .380 from Gerkin's trunk. When asked if the .380 was a semi-automatic, Boney responded, "I guess that's semi-automatic." The guy who loved .380's and who bragged to a friend that .380's packed the best punch and could be concealed in the palm of your hand, had to guess if a .380 was a semi-automatic.
Kessinger then tried to get Boney to give him a chronological breakdown of the times he met Camm, when, where, and at what time. Kessinger was getting frustrated and told Boney, "Just tell it like it happened. I don't need to be pulling teeth, just tell me what happened."
By any stretch of the imagination, Boney's story was sheer confusion. He mingled the stories about supposedly meeting Camm on two different days and was unsure as to how they agreed to meet in the future. Consider the following:
Boney: I told him that I'd be able to meet with him...that's it.
Kessinger: Meet with him when?
Boney: I don't remember how I set that date what I do remember that it was a date…um…that I chose not to go to work.
Kessinger: Okay, it was a future date, it wasn't one that you turn around and went back over to Louisville and get another one, order up another one, you just set a date in the future. But you don't know what that date was?
Boney: Cause I didn't know his work schedule.
Kessinger: You set the date?
Boney: I told him a time.
Kessinger: A time and a place?
Boney: To the best of my recollection that I would be at that Better Way again.
Kessinger: All right. And what time would that be?
Boney: Somewhere around 4:00, 4:30, between 4:00 and 5:00.
Can anyone follow the logic of those comments?
Oh, well, if you don't communicate with the telephone, you need to at least make an appointment, even though there was no logic in how that occurred. Oh, and where did they meet for the second time? Better Way, of course. Better Way, next door to Karem's, and in the direction where Camm was supposedly looking to make sure he wasn't seen by Kim's sister or brother-in-law. That's brilliant strategy. Make an appointment to buy a gun at a location where there are family witnesses.
There was another problem developing, however, and it was the times that Boney gave. He said that he and Camm were to meet again at the Better Way between 4:00 and 5:00PM on September 28th. After meeting around that time, Camm then convinced Boney to sell him another gun and asked him to follow him back to the house, which Boney did. Boney claimed that he followed Camm for another 15-20 minutes, again without remembering the kind of vehicle that Camm was driving.
Boney claimed that they got to the Camm residence between 5:00 and 5:30PM and Camm went inside to get the money for the second gun. Boney, who was left outside, said that, "So I'm observing his neighborhood just looking up at the trees and just checking out the neighborhood." There you have it. Boney became an outdoor enthusiast while waiting for the money for the second gun which is why he followed Camm to his house. Boney didn't explain why he had to deliver the first gun prior to payment but yet Camm was going to advance him money for a second gun. The answer is that story allowed Boney to get to the Camm house and to be a witness rather than the murderer.
It was between 5:00 and 5:30PM when Boney claimed that Kim and the kids drove up in the Bronco. What did Kim do? Why, according to Boney, she waved at Boney and then drove the Bronco into the garage. Boney's Cadillac was far enough to the side of the driveway to allow her into the garage. The placement of his vehicle, however, would have put it in the driveway which extended to the house of Camm's aunt and her family which was located behind the Camm residence. That didn't pose a problem to Boney, however, when telling his story.
Boney then claimed that five or six minutes passed and then he heard a pop. A second and a third pop was heard by Boney who had "ducked" behind his Cadillac. Boney then said he saw Camm walking towards him and aiming the gun which jammed, thus saving the life of the mere witness. According to Boney,"(Camm) had uh…a distasteful look on his face like damn."
Boney was able to discern that Camm, who was in the process of trying to kill him, not only had a "distasteful look on his face" but he also gave Boney a "funny look." That is one powerful piece of observation by a man who thought he was going to be dead in just moments. Nonetheless, Boney said he was going to try and get the gun away from Camm, who had turned and gone back into the garage and into the house. That's when Boney walked into the garage himself.
After walking into the garage, Boney repeated the incredible story about tripping over Kim's shoes, reaching down, picking them up, and then placing them on top of the Bronco as he looked in to see what had happened to the kids. He then heard a sound coming from the house and then ran back to his car because he thought that Camm was coming back with another gun.
Boney then repeated the story about seeing a white female, driving a Ford Crown Victoria, in his rear view mirror and first thinking that she was a cop. As noted previously, he was probably trying to nudge them towards Shelly Romero.
Boney then drove to New Albany and picked up his girlfriend, Mala Singh, around 6:00-6:30PM and then drove to Louisville where they attended a cookout at his former brother-in-law.
Of course, the only problem with those times is that they're a complete fabrication. Kim and the kids were with Janice Renn at the time Boney was claiming that Camm was killing them. Kim and Jill had just returned from dance class and joined Bradley at his grandmother's house prior to going to swim practice at 6:00PM.
Additionally, after David Camm had arrived home at 5:30PM, he spoke with his uncle Nelson who was across the gravel road with Amos, and then went into the house and logged on to his computer. Dave's timeline was verified by witnesses as well as his computer. Also, the Schwan's delivery guy made a sale to Dave at 6:35PM. In order to believe Boney's story, David Camm, when buying jalapeno poppers from the Schwan's man, was a very composed murderer whose wife and children had been lying dead in the garage for an hour. You also had to believe that they didn't even attend dance and swim practices. Of course, the many people that saw them at the practices may have been lying, just like the 11 eyewitnesses who were with Camm at the time of the murders.
Boney was clearly caught in yet another round of lies. That didn't stop him from following up with the following claim, "I knew that I was in a world of shit…and I was contemplating whether I would come forth and tell my side but the one thing that kept me back from it honestly is that I'm an African American and at that time twice in prison…no one would believe me. And when you're a criminal and you know your own shit you tend to just cover up as much as you can because you don't trust anyone."
Boney was going to come forward but couldn't. Boney, the victim, would be framed. No one would believe his story. Of course, his story was completely ludicrous and even laughable were it not for the fact that he had brutally slaughtered a mother and her children. Again, he's the victim, and he even used that word when claiming that he was but a mere witness.
What was Kessinger's reaction to Boney's story? He made the following comments:
- "...the times are off, the activities are off, the cars are off..."
- "David Camm was not gonna meet a total stranger…not two meetings and order up a weapon the second meeting. No ex-policeman's gonna do that."
- "Larry Gerkin was just a figment of somebody's imagination."
- "You're wanting to me to believe that David Camm shot and killed his wife, his 5-year old daughter and his 7-year old son. Then walked outside the garage and tried to kill you with that same weapon. Now how's he going to explain four victims being shot with the same weapon at his house?"
- "What rational…you're in a murder scene of a triple homicide with a female laying at your feet dead, a 5-year old girl and a 7-year old boy in the backseat of a Bronco dead, and you take the time to pick up a pair of shoes that you trip over and set em neatly, if I might add, neatly on top of the Bronco?"
- "...now you conveniently touch that Bronco that a Floyd Memorial Hospital parking lot…that today you change and now you touched it coincidentally and for your benefit in the garage while you were looking in the back of it or while you're putting the shoes on the car."
- "And here comes David Camm out the garage door with a gun, he pulls, he didn't even try to clear it he's an expert. You think he can't clear a stovepipe weapon, he don't know how to clear a jam gun? If he's gonna kill you he's gonna kill you, why is he gonna turn and run for?"
- "There must be ten minutes worth of gapes in this tape where you got to meditate for a second…and think for a second. Or you, do you think you're that sharp that nobody's gonna understand know but you're gonna outsmart everybody?"
- "...you haven't told me anything differently. You just whatever is appropriate for you to make for the new evidence that's come against you."
- "There is nothing about that story that's believable. What makes you think...if we're not gonna believe it what makes you thinks a jury is going to buy that? How many lies are you gonna tell? How many times are you gonna try to orchestrate this to fit your need that all I did was supply him with a gun?"
- "You were responsible for a hell of a lot more than supplying him with one weapon."
- "Charles…you told us today that you wanted to talk to us. You told us that you wanted to tell us the true story of what happened. I think this thing is a crock of shit so far and it's been transferred to us."
Clearly, Kessinger wasn't buying Boney's story. After almost thirty-four hours of interviews and interrogations, failed polygraphs, and absolutely no confirmation of any of Boney's allegations, Kessinger again summed up Boney's story as a "crock of shit" and a "cock and bull story."
Detective Gilbert was also forced to tell Boney, "You don't have your times straight and I don't think that means you have your story straight. There's absolutely no way that David could have met with you at the store, you follow him and everything else with the timeframe."
Gilbert perhaps did have a fleeting thought that maybe Boney was there by himself when he asked Boney the following, "What's the real story here? Were you offered a lot of money by David?" That line of questioning wasn't followed, however, because if Boney were there by himself (either acting on his own or having been hired by Camm) then that meant their blood spatter "experts" wouldn't be correct about the high velocity blood misting on Camm's T-shirt. That would ruin their whole theory. But then again, their whole theory rested on their experts being the better salesmen and their opinions being accepted by a jury. That, of course, and the false allegations of molest against Camm.
Gilbert then broached the following with Boney, "One of the uh...theories we have is...because of your interest in pantyhose...well we believe that she (Kim) had pantyhose on and you wanted to remove those to keep for later. Did you remove her pantyhose?" Gilbert had previously claimed, and later claimed under oath in Boney's trial, that nothing was taken from the scene, but yet told Boney that he believed that Boney had stolen Kim's pantyhose.
The fact that a man with a foot and shoe fetish had previously paid $50.00 for a single hose from a topless dancer, had ejaculated over women's feet, had previously forcibly attacked women and stolen their shoes, and was still ordering foot fetish movies at the time of his arrest, were, at the very least, a few clues. Then again, they couldn't follow that rational line of investigation because that meant that they would have to eliminate David Camm from their theory. They therefore had to eat Boney's story about being a neat-nik who tripped over the shoes and who placed them neatly on top of the Bronco.
There was some talk about giving Boney another polygraph. There was a problem with that scenario, however. He had previously failed one polygraph and what would be the next logical series of questions, after his palm print was found on the Bronco and he had admitted that he was present? They would have to be: "Did you shoot Kim Camm?" "Did you shoot Bradley Camm?" "Did you shoot Jill Camm?"
Those questions couldn't be asked, because that meant when Boney flunked those questions, that David Camm would be exonerated (he had already been exonerated by Boney's property, DNA, palm print and criminal signature at the scene but the police and prosecutors wouldn't acknowledge the obvious). Another polygraph of Charles Boney would only help David Camm and that couldn't be tolerated.
Both Kessinger and Gilbert made last ditch pleas to Boney to tell them the truth; i.e. how David Camm did it. Boney failed to deliver. However, he wanted to please them and asked the following:
Boney: A jury wouldn't believe that I have a gun? That I gave to David Camm?
Kessinger: Sure, they're probably gonna believe that.
Boney: I mean they wouldn't believe that I...I mean let's just say hypothetically let's say I stole a gun and I don't know where I stole the gun from. But I had just told that, which that is not the truth but...
Incredibly enough, Boney was asking if he should "hypothetically" change his story about how he got the gun in order to help with the prosecution of Camm. Indeed, he knew what his role was going to be and he was trying to help as much as possible...as long as he continued to minimize his involvement.
As the interrogation ended, both Kessinger and Gilbert also told Boney that he should "come to Jesus." The only problem with that request is that Charles Boney is a true psychopath without a conscience. Additionally, many witnesses saw and heard Boney as he worshipped Satan with midnight chants and black candles and at the same time that he was blaspheming God with perverse sexual comments. Asking Charles Boney to "come to Jesus" was an exercise in futility and the plea to him to do the right thing was one which he probably later laughed about.
At 11:04PM the interrogation was completed. At the end of it all, Boney had spun an "unbelievable" and illogical story which was a "crock of shit" and a "cock and bull story" which had been orchestrated to minimize his involvement.
And what was the upshot of his "crock of shit?" A story that had absolutely nothing in it to even remotely suggest a conspiracy to commit murder between David Camm and Charles Boney? On March 9, 2005, a new affidavit was filed by Henderson. The affiant on that new affidavit was Detective Gary Gilbert who had proclaimed Boney's story as a "story of convenience."
In that sworn affidavit, Gilbert, who told Boney that he didn't have his "story straight," made the following claim:
"Charles Boney expressed that his involvement in this crime was for financial gain and that David Camm was to compensate him for his involvement." In order to give further weight to that allegation, Gilbert then mischaracterized Dave's call to Kim's work and a conversation about insurance money in an effort to further buttress that allegation by inferring that Dave was going to pay Boney from Kim's life insurance proceeds.
That inference was the tie between Boney and Camm and thus the foundation for the conspiracy charge. The only problem was that wasn't what Boney said. Boney said he had already been paid for the gun he sold to Camm and that any future money was for another gun. In order to charge David Camm with conspiracy, however, the prosecution needed to link Boney and Camm together and the "cock and bull" evidence that they had wasn't going to get the job done nor would it enable the prosecutor to get Camm's case from Warrick County back to Floyd County.
The police's quest to have Boney sign a "conspiracy note" failed but they nonetheless still found a way to charge David Camm with a conspiracy between he and Charles Boney when absolutely no evidence whatsoever existed. There were never any comments made by anyone that David Camm and Charles Boney conspired with one another (much less ever knew or associated with one another) and absolutely nothing of Boney's ever-changing stories has ever been verified.
(The attempts to link Boney and Camm would not stop, however, and it became common knowledge in the Floyd County Jail, where both Camm and Boney were incarcerated after March 9th, that inmates thought that they could get deals if they could link the two together.
The defense interviewed one inmate who was solicited to put Boney and Camm together by another inmate, Richard Ancrum, who had already met with Deputy Prosecutor Owen. According to that inmate, Ancrum told him, "I don't care, this dude's (Camm) white, he's a cop… he's (Ancrum) telling me just write a letter and he kept saying it (the truth) doesn't matter… he kept saying over and over all they (the prosecution) need is a connection. They need a connection between Boney and Camm and you be the connection between Boney and Camm. How they met each other, what they did, you know what I mean..."
Ancrum told the other inmate that the prosecutors needed a connection. If that story is true, and it certainly appears to be, then that certainly lends further credence that the State didn't have a connection prior to Camm and Boney being charged with conspiracy.
Richard Ancrum, a drug dealer, got what most people would call a great deal from the prosecutors. He had been facing 50-60 years imprisonment for several Class A Drug Felonies but instead he wound up, with good time, getting a five year sentence.)
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